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Post by Chicago Bulls (Charlie) on Aug 22, 2017 20:35:07 GMT -5
Wow. what the fuck Danny Ainge. you've spent the last 4 ish years building near perfectly. some minor bumps, u dealt Avery, struck out on some FA's but for the most part ya'll were set to be the team when Bron leaves.
Now, you've given Cleveland an out. While yes you get a MINOR upgrade at the point, you've given Cleveland a top draft pick for when Bron leaves and who knows what IT and Bron can accomplish and hell maybe Bron stays in CLE.
imo terrible move, ain't nobody touching the Cavs this year and the fact that Boston thinks getting Kyrie will put them over the top is Yacob logic but i dont even think hes that stupid.
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Post by San Antonio Spurs (Chris) on Aug 23, 2017 3:11:47 GMT -5
Kyrie>>>IT, but Crowder's a solid player who could've netted them something substantial on his own, plus the pick, plus Zizic... Pretty gross overpay. TJ must be shitting himself with happiness, or in his case gaiety.
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Post by Toronto Raptors (Perk) on Aug 23, 2017 7:18:59 GMT -5
It's an overpay but Ainge was not giving Isaiah a max contract, so he wanted to get something for him. We didn't have any large non-max contracts left on our books to dole out, which is why Zizic was thrown in. Same reason Danny traded Bradley, he didn't want to pay him 22 million or whatever he'll get next year. I think the Cavs dominated this trade, and the Celtics did alright, BUT DON'T THINK FOR A MINUTE that LeBron stays in Cleveland after the season.
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Post by Charlotte Hornets (TJ) on Aug 23, 2017 9:41:21 GMT -5
Cavs absolutely merked the Celtics in this deal. I appreciate and love everything Kyrie has done but this was the perfect deal. Now the Cavs have a top pick that they could use as leverage to keep LeBron or use it to rebuild after him.
This also proves how overrated David Griffin was
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Post by Chicago Bulls (Charlie) on Aug 23, 2017 12:54:57 GMT -5
It's an overpay but Ainge was not giving Isaiah a max contract, so he wanted to get something for him. We didn't have any large non-max contracts left on our books to dole out, which is why Zizic was thrown in. Same reason Danny traded Bradley, he didn't want to pay him 22 million or whatever he'll get next year. I think the Cavs dominated this trade, and the Celtics did alright, BUT DON'T THINK FOR A MINUTE that LeBron stays in Cleveland after the season. I think he's 99% gone as well, but Perk this trade arguably made Cleveland better this year and now they have decent pieces to build from post LeBron, if ur Boston why give them that? |
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Post by Toronto Raptors (Perk) on Aug 23, 2017 14:49:55 GMT -5
I didn't give them that nig I'm the Raptors GM you can ask Yacob.
Post-Lebron Cleveland doesn't scare anyone. The Cavaliers got a great trade on the books for their young GM, but Ainge may have worried about Isaiah's hip (a valid concern) and upcoming free agency (another valid concern) and maybe he thought he needed to outbid another team to get Kyrie. Still not overly thrilled , but there were certainly reasons for Ainge to do so.
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Post by Oklahoma City Thunder (Loren) on Aug 23, 2017 20:52:13 GMT -5
Lebron to Boston 2018 confirmed.
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Post by Atlanta Hawks (Trey) on Aug 23, 2017 22:30:48 GMT -5
lebron is going to the lakers. (I really mean he's going to Philadelphia)  |
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Post by Chicago Bulls (Charlie) on Aug 23, 2017 22:54:29 GMT -5
If I'm Boston I don't give up all that for Kyrie. No way. Bottom Line. Especially when u have all the leverage in the world. It's like a gun was pointed to Ainge's head. There's reasons to do the trade but the bad out weighs the good.
The more i think about it, the more I think Kyrie is a product of playing with the best player in the world. (thus making him better than he seems) Obviously the kid's an allstar and a 20 per scorer no doubt. But I think his numbers drop. We are really gonna see what Kyrie's made of this year.
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Post by Yacob (freelance idiot) on Aug 24, 2017 0:31:42 GMT -5
I love the overreactions from basically everyone on all sides of the NBA spectrum.
Do I love the fact that the BKN 1st is involved? ew, no. That's honestly like an Anthony Davis package almost, but in the NBA you just don't see 25 year olds traded who are this good and on a multi year contract...like it simply doesn't happen. You gotta overpay.
For Boston this is obviously a "timeline" trade, Kyrie definitely fits the Jaylen/Tatum timeline and IT4 didn't....also who wants to pay a 30 year old midget 170m until he's almost 35? That's a Nets move
For Cleveland this is incredible. You protect yourself from Lebron Leleaving Volume 2 and even if he wants to stay, you set up a summer 2014 Wiggins/Love trade scenario all over again to make Cleveland the team to beat in the East until Lebron basically dies of old age....
Good luck with everything Chicago...I hear the Blackhawks are dank?
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Post by Yacob (freelance idiot) on Aug 24, 2017 0:34:52 GMT -5
That said....I am fucking pumped about having Kyrie. If nothing else but to be able to watch every game he plays, he might be the most fun watch in the league when he's hot. Having a player as entertaining as Kyrie would make losing to anybody a lot more fun, and for the next few years we aren't winning no matter what so let's have some fun
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Post by San Antonio Spurs (Chris) on Aug 24, 2017 1:10:13 GMT -5
The more i think about it, the more I think Kyrie is a product of playing with the best player in the world. (thus making him better than he seems) Obviously the kid's an allstar and a 20 per scorer no doubt. But I think his numbers drop. We are really gonna see what Kyrie's made of this year. Gotta say i disagree with that part... Kyrie had a valid point in wanting to play away from LBJ, and he's a baller, I'd be shocked if his numbers aren't significantly better this year. Staying healthy and handling the pressure of being "the guy" in a place like Boston will be his issues. I also wonder about the chemistry with a player like Hayward, who's also in his first year in a new system, and I'd worry that his instinct will be to revert to dominating the ball from the wing... Or going to the opposite extreme and "disappearing" in deference to Kyrie/horford... But, Stevens is one of the few coaches capable of making a situation like that work. Should at least be an interesting year in Boston, and game 1 of the season couldn't be more enticing. Sent from my Pixel using proboards |
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Post by Toronto Raptors (Perk) on Aug 24, 2017 7:28:09 GMT -5
Yeah Hayward is less ball dominant than LeBron, and Horford is one of those bigs that wants to make plays for his teammates. I really hope Kyrie buys into what Brad says about sharing the ball and playing within a system, because Brad will give Kyrie easier shots (which would hopefully mean he makes a higher percentage, like if he can make ridiculous shots when he's on fire, you'd hope he can knock in an open one). They have sets for each guy usually, where Horford and a ball handler can run it, or anytime Hayward and a point guard are on the floor, a set to always get Kyrie a mismatch, etc. I love how our guys would run some of these sets just naturally last year without Brad calling a play, it really keeps the offense in rhythm. Do you folks think Kyrie will try harder on defense with the Celtics or is it an incurable disease?
Side note: I hope the Celtics go back to running, like last year we did to an extent but the year before our fastbreak was very effective. All
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Post by Chicago Bulls (Charlie) on Aug 24, 2017 10:48:08 GMT -5
The more i think about it, the more I think Kyrie is a product of playing with the best player in the world. (thus making him better than he seems) Obviously the kid's an allstar and a 20 per scorer no doubt. But I think his numbers drop. We are really gonna see what Kyrie's made of this year. Gotta say i disagree with that part... Kyrie had a valid point in wanting to play away from LBJ, and he's a baller, I'd be shocked if his numbers aren't significantly better this year. Staying healthy and handling the pressure of being "the guy" in a place like Boston will be his issues. I also wonder about the chemistry with a player like Hayward, who's also in his first year in a new system, and I'd worry that his instinct will be to revert to dominating the ball from the wing... Or going to the opposite extreme and "disappearing" in deference to Kyrie/horford... But, Stevens is one of the few coaches capable of making a situation like that work. Should at least be an interesting year in Boston, and game 1 of the season couldn't be more enticing. Sent from my Pixel using proboards "Kyrie had a valid point in wanting to play away from LBJ" Your fucking joking right? He hoisted more shots per game than the best player in the world and he STILL bitched and moaned. There's never a valid point to want to move away from someone like LeBron unless your just a selfish prick lmao. He basically said I don't care about winning I just wanna be the guy. Now obviously in Boston he's gonna win but is that really the attitude u want on your team? |
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Post by San Antonio Spurs (Chris) on Aug 24, 2017 12:20:09 GMT -5
Didn't say I agreed with him, just that his point was valid... All these guys have egos, you have to in order to be that good, and it can't be easy always being overshadowed and feeling like your own legacy is being minimized. If you were as good as Kyrie, would you want to always be remembered as that pretty good point guard who played with LeBron? Scottie Pippen is still underappreciated, and not everyone has his ability to be content with taking a backseat.
Not to mention the bullshit of LeBron's little crew of friends running shit, flying with the team, keeping him separate, influencing decisions, etc. That shit would drive me crazy for sure.
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Post by Yacob (freelance idiot) on Aug 24, 2017 12:53:01 GMT -5
Agreed with Spurs 100%...this notion of Lebron being "easy to play with" is absolutely absurd in every single way. He has the biggest ego in sports. Lebron thinks he's your father...Fuck playing with that.
Just because a dude passes a lot doesn't make him "easy to play with" or "a great teammate".....Lebron acts like the Queen of England while the 2-15 guys on the team are the Royal Knights
And i like Lebron, a lot. But if you can't see how playing with him would get really fucking old almost immediately, then i seriously question how much you pay attention or at the very least, your ability to read any body language whatsoever. Kyrie wasn't feeling it in 2014, let alone now when everyone is riding Lebron's dick like he's fucking Magic Johnson in 1984
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Post by Yacob (freelance idiot) on Aug 24, 2017 13:04:40 GMT -5
And people also forget this...
Put yourself in this situation and tell me how you'd react...
You carry a franchise for the 1st three seasons of your NBA career, in year 3 you completely take your game to a new level at just 21 years old...many believe you are already on pace to become one of the great PG's of the 21st century and at just 21 you almost carry an unimaginably shitty roster to the playoffs with a half interested Luol Deng as your number 2
And then the guy comes back who has given your franchise years of eating shit, you're expected to just fall in line like Chris Bosh did at age 28 even though you are barely scratching the surface of your capabilities as a player
You show the franchise commitment
He doesn't
You're expected to be ok with being the sidekick to a guy who's already planning on waiving the white flag and taking the easy way out YET AGAIN
Meanwhile, you're expected to be totally cool with all this even though you are the one who has shown commitment to the franchise
You're expected to be cool with eating shit after this same asshole leaves the same fucking city...again
But yet asking for a trade while your value is high in order to give your only NBA team you've known hope for the future is selfish...meanwhile this dude who's planning his exit is the most unselfish superstar in the league?
No, fuck that.
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Post by Toronto Raptors (Perk) on Aug 24, 2017 13:27:45 GMT -5
YESSSSS And all he hears is "LeBron willed Cleveland to a championship" when in reality he and Irving (and maybe Kevin Love) took that team to a title. He didn't get enough credit and a lot of cleveland's non-bandwagon fans know that. The narrative is LeBron overcame to blah blah blah. Of course he was the better player but Irving put up superstar numbers for that playoff run. I'd feel shitty if I bonded with new teammates for a few years and then some asshole comes onto the team and demands that they are traded, only to then criticize his new teammates for not stepping it up. And we all know LeBron is a great player.
AND wanting to be the guy is the way you create a legacy. If you want to ring hop and always be with other superstars, don't expect to be considered a better player than the guy who leads a team to a championship (Dirk 2011 type leader). Kyrie DOES have Gordon Hayward who is without question a great player (but not a superstar), but wanting to create a legacy doesn't mean you don't want to win (believing that only the guys who want to join superteams are winners is fucking pathetic).
A championship that is won is better than a championship that is given. What I mean by that: the Golden State Warriors had 4 allstars (2 superstars) and could have a terrible night and still blow teams out by 30. You can make an argument that no championship is given to you, but none of those guys in their right mind can honestly think that they had to overcome the most adversities of other teams runs to a title. Like you had to learn to play together, I get that (although none of them were the same position beforehand which helps a lot). You had to go through the Spurs, and it's not your fault that Kawhi got injured and therefore breezed through to the finals, but even a healthy leonard is ONE guy, albeit on a veteran team with good coaching. There is just limited resistance and I think the fans are very impressed at how good your team was, but not all that surprised given the talent of your 4 all stars. To want to prove to the world that you can win a championship with either a more balanced team or a 1 superstar team should be any great players goal. If you are approaching the tail end of your career, I understand wanting to join up with others. But LeBron and Durant took the easy way out, and while you can point to those moves as simply "wanting to win a championship", WHICH IS VALID, they are also taking the easy way. Their legacies should be remembered as such. Like I'm not the biggest Westbrook fan but to suggest he doesn't want to win is silly. Same goes for Kyrie; he wants to compete without being in the shadow of other superstars.
So sort of a rant and I probably have large holes in this argument but if you can at least hear the overall theme from what I'm saying then I've made a point.
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Post by Yacob (freelance idiot) on Aug 24, 2017 13:53:36 GMT -5
1. KEVIN LOVE doesn't get the credit he deserves
2. I believe Gordon Hayward is the 4th best player in the East...he'll be flirting with Superstar status after this season. Boston's uptempo pace is going to allow Hayward to go nuclear
3. Jerry Sloan has one of my favorite quotes in basketball ever, and it's incredibly true to this day: "You need 2 greats, a good, and everybody else" and that is why I am over the moon about this trade. You aren't getting Kyrie in the 2018 draft, Crowder is meh, and IT4 has peaked and has very real concerns about his durability going forward. Take a "great" and hope both Jaylen and Tatum can be part of the "2 greats, a good" part of the equation.
Boston made the right move. But so did Cleveland. Sometimes both teams win, I believe both teams won here.
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Post by San Antonio Spurs (Chris) on Aug 24, 2017 16:18:26 GMT -5
What did we learn today, kiddos?
Celts fans, as usual, were just waiting for someone else to create the bandwagon so they could happily jump aboard
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Post by Yacob (freelance idiot) on Aug 24, 2017 16:20:15 GMT -5
What did we learn today, kiddos? Celts fans, as usual, were just waiting for someone else to create the bandwagon so they could happily jump aboard Sent from my Pixel using proboards Idk what this means Just your usual brand of trying really hard to be condescending, but failing. |
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Post by San Antonio Spurs (Chris) on Aug 24, 2017 16:24:46 GMT -5
Sorry gents, i couldn't help myself... Love you guys, love the activity, love the commitment to your team and city, don't stop even if it is all just preening and circle jerking
As i said before, during, and after... the wars were a better team, but the Spurs were legit and legit could have, maybe would have, beaten them in a seven game series. There are a lot of minutes between those teams, outside of what happened and the immediate context, that prove the truth of that, and wars fans know it. What sucks is that we missed out on what would have been a great extended series. Fuck zaza.
Sent from my Pixel using proboards
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Post by San Antonio Spurs (Chris) on Aug 24, 2017 16:28:44 GMT -5
What did we learn today, kiddos? Celts fans, as usual, were just waiting for someone else to create the bandwagon so they could happily jump aboard Sent from my Pixel using proboards Idk what this means Just your usual brand of trying really hard to be condescending, but failing. What i meant was that the league had been relatively dead, a non Celts fan makes an unpopular statement coinciding with what Celts fans want to believe, and the Celts fans in the building put up like ten posts in five minutes Christ yacob I'm just trying to irritate you and hopefully muster up some activity and interest around here, as if you didn't know all this by now... What i really want is for these stupid bickerings between us to get people to be engaged, make their own thoughts about the situation heard, all that loveliness. So i guess what we truly learned is that I'm bored and i wish the season was here. That was a huge trade, the ramifications and implications and league altering effects are things deserving reflection and debate, if you're a real fan of the game and league, but it seems like only the four of us actually noticed. That's me, Raps, yacob, and Chuck... Where the fuck is everyone else? This is like my tenth addendum to what was supposed to just be a snarky fuck yacob post, so i guess we all know how bored i am. Talk people! Sent from my Pixel using proboards |
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Post by Chicago Bulls (Charlie) on Aug 24, 2017 19:49:21 GMT -5
LeBron has carried every team he's ever been on. The first couple heatle years yes he had help and it wasn't all him. But when wade and bosh started breaking down? Yeah he was carrying. The cavs would have 2 titles if Kyrie wasn't injury prone too people forget that. It's never been a coast show like Durant got, LeBron won those titles with the team on his back and some huge timely shots/games from other players.
And yeah KLove doesn't get credit but that's gonna be any big man that plays w Lebron at this point except KAT. Bosh honestly played better w LBJ thank Love does as of right now.
Back to the trade, I just don't think Kyrie can take his game to a Harden type level. IMO he needs to given what Boston gave up. I don't get why Boston didn't wait either, probably could've eventually got that deal w/o giving up BKN's 1st.
And Chris ur irrelevant u think Manu>Kobe. Get that Euro dick outta ur mouth.
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Post by Yacob (freelance idiot) on Aug 24, 2017 21:12:01 GMT -5
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Post by Yacob (freelance idiot) on Aug 24, 2017 21:14:38 GMT -5
The cavs would have 2 titles if Kyrie wasn't injury prone too people forget that.  |
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Post by Yacob (freelance idiot) on Aug 24, 2017 21:43:32 GMT -5
Sorry gents, i couldn't help myself... Love you guys, love the activity, love the commitment to your team and city, don't stop even if it is all just preening and circle jerking As i said before, during, and after... the wars were a better team, but the Spurs were legit and legit could have, maybe would have, beaten them in a seven game series. There are a lot of minutes between those teams, outside of what happened and the immediate context, that prove the truth of that, and wars fans know it. What sucks is that we missed out on what would have been a great extended series. Fuck zaza. Sent from my Pixel using proboards I want Spurs to trade LMA I think either Giannis or Anthony Davis sign as a Free Agent in San Antonio. Years from now you will see me as I am; a prophet |
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Post by San Antonio Spurs (Chris) on Aug 24, 2017 22:56:07 GMT -5
Who's still playing? And still helping his team? Spurs were >3 pp/100 better with ginobili on the floor last year... Anyone think Kobe could do that, on any team, much less one as already efficient as the Spurs?
Flashy, ridiculously talented egomaniac who requires retarded usage rates and 10+ missed FGA per game in order to be relevant, or pass-first scrubber who consistently does all the little things and just flat out makes shit happen, every fucking night, for fifteen years? I'll take Manu, all day, every day.
Fuck Kobe, worst teammate ever, and worst effect on team chemistry in the history of the league. Overrated because he scores pretty, that's it.
Sent from my Pixel using proboards
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Post by San Antonio Spurs (Chris) on Aug 24, 2017 23:07:25 GMT -5
Sorry gents, i couldn't help myself... Love you guys, love the activity, love the commitment to your team and city, don't stop even if it is all just preening and circle jerking As i said before, during, and after... the wars were a better team, but the Spurs were legit and legit could have, maybe would have, beaten them in a seven game series. There are a lot of minutes between those teams, outside of what happened and the immediate context, that prove the truth of that, and wars fans know it. What sucks is that we missed out on what would have been a great extended series. Fuck zaza. Sent from my Pixel using proboards I want Spurs to trade LMA I think either Giannis or Anthony Davis sign as a Free Agent in San Antonio. Years from now you will see me as I am; a prophet Yes, i frankly can't wait for us to trade LMA either... Trouble is his production and perceived value aren't equal to his contract at this point, it's not really close, and he's 32. He's almost negative value. Sent from my Pixel using proboards |
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Post by Toronto Raptors (Perk) on Aug 25, 2017 7:18:47 GMT -5
I don't want to open the discussion again regarding the Ginobili vs Kobe debate, even if it would spike interest lol. Although Spurs I have him in this league if you want to make an offer! BUT I agree with everything Spurs said about Kobe. In the last couple years where he was constantly injured he may have started caring for his young players, but I'll never forget that playoff series when Kobe was covered with no way of getting him the ball (would have had to have been lobbed over the defense but not too far because he wasn't the farthest guy on the court), and Steve Blake was wide open in the corner for a shot and they passed to Blake. He missed the shot, and all Kobe did was whine and bitch at (I believe it was Artest/World Peace inbounding) the inbounder saying give me the ball. **Edit, that bothered me because Kobe's instinct when the shot wasn't "I'd love for Steve to make that shot and win us this game", it was "why the hell did Artest do that, does he know who I am?".** I know you need to want it in the moment, but winners should want the best shot available, or at least be the one to iso if a better shot/play isn't available.
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